tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post464367787050699160..comments2024-03-29T11:00:39.953+00:00Comments on RevK<sup>®</sup>'s ramblings: BT can fine you for getting broadband elsewhere?RevKhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12369263214193333422noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-37281495213777280542017-10-30T08:09:10.606+00:002017-10-30T08:09:10.606+00:00Indeed, and BTs push to try and charge people for ...Indeed, and BTs push to try and charge people for fixing faults is simply not on either. They need the price at the Openreach level for the wires in the ground to cover the cost of making that work. How hard can it be to get that right, really?RevKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369263214193333422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-32772210957336754672017-10-30T08:06:12.081+00:002017-10-30T08:06:12.081+00:00For a long time, it was actually the other way rou...For a long time, it was actually the other way round - BT were making a loss on every "line", making up for it in excess profits on calls and broadband. Perhaps that's finally been fixed now, so line rental actually covers the line costs without a cross-subsidy from inflated call charges, but I wouldn't bet on it.<br /><br />The rental price *is* regulated, and call packages aren't obligatory - indeed, the host of this very blog offers a 'line only' service with no calls at all!<br /><br />The root problem here is that providing and maintaining a copper wire, possibly multiple miles long, is actually an expensive job - whether you pass any calls or data over the wire or not. I know some people think it should be cheaper if you don't use it much: have you tried asking Ford if you can pay half price for a Mondeo you're not going to drive much? It doesn't cost any less to make!jas88https://www.blogger.com/profile/05563592458314214904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-66308508262704868832017-10-28T06:08:52.627+01:002017-10-28T06:08:52.627+01:00Indeed, that was a silly mess aa well. This is not...Indeed, that was a silly mess aa well. This is not a social tariff though (AFAIK) but addressing that BT forces you to have a call package you don’t want. And the biggest case for that is people who only have a line for broadband!RevKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369263214193333422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-39081172639781904432017-10-28T06:06:18.340+01:002017-10-28T06:06:18.340+01:00I’d agree except that the change here is entirely ...I’d agree except that the change here is entirely at retail BT retail level. With Openreach split the costs for PSTN and the access to that line for Broadband remain the same still.RevKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369263214193333422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-71995911257116061212017-10-28T05:57:36.477+01:002017-10-28T05:57:36.477+01:00Well compared to how it was they are not making ex...Well compared to how it was they are not making extra as they are being force not to rip people off with call packages they don’t want (unless they have broadband). But with the Openreach split they cannot really argue that this is anything to do with SMPF access being under prices as this makes no difference at the Openreach level.RevKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369263214193333422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-60881039350823052017-10-27T22:45:25.777+01:002017-10-27T22:45:25.777+01:00"the only way this makes sense is if OFCOM co..."the only way this makes sense is if OFCOM consider that ISPs using SMPF and FTTC on a line are not paying their way for that access. Is that really what OFCOM think?"<br /><br />What's the cost per end user these days of SMPF vs the voice side cost? Assuming it's not hugely changed in the last few years, I could well believe that SMPF access is in a sense underpriced, and always has been.<br /><br />A voice-only service could work for years over an Openreach copper pair without intervention, and if it breaks it's usually relatively easy (ie cheap) to diagnose and restore. The significance of maintenance+repair costs is minimal.<br /><br />A broadband service over the same wiring (with its own equipment) is far more sensitive to the state of the equipment and wiring (both Openreach's and end user's). <br /><br />Basically, if someone sneezes in the wrong place the broadband service will degrade or fail, and diagnosis and restoration of service will cost far more than is sensible.<br /><br />Part of the reason it's so expensive is because of the complete and utter brokenness of the end-user->ISP->Openreach interfaces for fault management purposes, and the failure of Openreach to have appropriate diagnostic technology in place to manage millions of end user voice and broadband installations properly and cost effectively.<br /><br />Broadband-specific diagnosis and service restoration must be costing BT/Openreach a small fortune. Maybe it's costing a large fortune, given the number of repeat visits I see for faults that *should* have been fixable first visit, given sensible processes and technologies.<br /><br />When BT are both wholesaler and retailer, it doesn't actually matter which piece picks up the cost of diagnosis and repair.<br /><br />When BT/Openreach are only the wholesaler, and someone else is the service provider, the wholesaler cannot currently pass on the cost of broadband diagnosis and repair to the ISP (though as readers here will know, they do often try quite hard). So in that sense, SMPF is probanly arguably underpriced (assuming one accepts that BT/Openreach in its current state are, and likely always will be, incapable of designing and cost effectively managing the operation of a national broadband delivery network).<br /><br />So BigBT's people have now found a way to get an extra few pounds a month into BigBT to cover BT/Openreach's inability to do cost effective broadband fault diagnosis and repair. <br /><br />Or have I misunderstood?<br />cjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12864716352761027073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-59981275035460605172017-10-27T21:06:40.420+01:002017-10-27T21:06:40.420+01:00It's been clear for a very long time that line...It's been clear for a very long time that line rental has been subsidising broadband - Wholesale prices drop and yet line rental (with compulsory call packages) has risen to a ridiculous price point. This has had an awful knock on to people who just want a phone line and have no need for broadband or unlimited calls.<br /><br />Why didn't OFCOM address this imbalance correctly and impose a cap on the rental element and make call packages optional? Broadband prices from the main providers would inevitably go up but the net effect would be that users of packaged services would be paying a similar amount to now but light users would be significantly better off.<br /><br />What's the point of having industry regulation if it isn't there to protect consumers...<br /><br />Worst of both worlds now for the reason's that Adrian outlines! Peter Watsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12155419042139691575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-66093481635137000422017-10-27T21:00:50.316+01:002017-10-27T21:00:50.316+01:00Re: "It is no different that saying BT can in...Re: "It is no different that saying BT can increase line price if you buy a mobile phone from someone else," - I seem to recall that that exact thing could happen with the old "light user" scheme: it was also a reduced rental for people who hardly used their phone, but conditional that had no other telephony service! Getting a mobile broke the condition, and the rental went up!Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15492761714688454925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-27382714529425235142017-10-27T19:26:50.289+01:002017-10-27T19:26:50.289+01:00I suspect part of BT Group plc, to be honest. No i...I suspect part of BT Group plc, to be honest. No impact on my BT shares basically.RevKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369263214193333422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-37074260207231362622017-10-27T19:24:59.507+01:002017-10-27T19:24:59.507+01:00Openreach won't really be separate though, wil...Openreach won't really be separate though, will it? It will still be wholly owned by BT, no? And it is the owners/shareholders who control what happens in a company, not the Directors.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-25439633129634084902017-10-27T18:23:34.710+01:002017-10-27T18:23:34.710+01:00Quite, but soon Openreach may be separate which ma...Quite, but soon Openreach may be separate which makes it even more interesting. I've emailed our Openreach account manager for details of the new messages.RevKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369263214193333422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-31553910511981483582017-10-27T18:21:09.075+01:002017-10-27T18:21:09.075+01:00Well BT seem to think that BT Retail != BT Wholesa...Well BT seem to think that BT Retail != BT Wholesale != Openreach. So going by their own (flawed) logic it would be illegal for one "company" to give your data to another "allegedly unrelated" separate "company". Right?!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-81817291791082369582017-10-27T18:20:19.071+01:002017-10-27T18:20:19.071+01:00Seriously, happy for customers to have lower "...Seriously, happy for customers to have lower "line only" and no "call bundles" tariff from BT. But WTF has that to do with broadband?RevKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369263214193333422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-13264779149308165832017-10-27T18:17:42.446+01:002017-10-27T18:17:42.446+01:00Another joke decision from ofcom, ill thought out ...Another joke decision from ofcom, ill thought out as usual. It's basically just virtue signalling "won't somebody think of the elderly".<br /><br />The whole broadband market in the UK is a mess of poor regulations.rtho782https://www.blogger.com/profile/02052870855136709228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-47411210488493220062017-10-27T17:25:14.612+01:002017-10-27T17:25:14.612+01:00Wow. This seems to be the exact sort of thing Ofco...Wow. This seems to be the exact sort of thing Ofcom should be *preventing*.Nick Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04083452977458707717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-83335322927645958952017-10-27T17:23:04.796+01:002017-10-27T17:23:04.796+01:00That is, indeed, one of the questions that needs a...That is, indeed, one of the questions that needs asking. Bear in mind it may not even be BT Wholesale, it could be say TT Business using FTTC via Openreach. Heck, it could be a third party sub loop unbundled company jumping in to the BT cab.RevKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369263214193333422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-49937704823227547622017-10-27T17:22:08.386+01:002017-10-27T17:22:08.386+01:00Adrian - After all these years of dealing with OFC...Adrian - After all these years of dealing with OFCOM you still seem to think that they are there to operate in the best interests of customers.<br /><br />They aren't - they are there to operate in the best interests of BT (Retail, Wholesale, Openreach etc) and always have.<br /><br />Look at how long they take to "decide" on things that to you, me and the man in the street are so obvious to do. If it involves "hurting" BT then they will prevaricate / delay / call for inquiries before being forced to do it.<br /><br />Move along please, nothing new to see here.Chris - Edinburghnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-61951628295845513482017-10-27T16:48:27.843+01:002017-10-27T16:48:27.843+01:00If I have a contract with BT Retail for line only ...If I have a contract with BT Retail for line only can BTWholesale tell BT Retail if I order Broadband from another provider without breaching Data protection etc.?jelvhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06330649794336059930noreply@blogger.com