tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post535913373669539175..comments2024-03-28T09:19:27.451+00:00Comments on RevK<sup>®</sup>'s ramblings: Is over blocking legal?RevKhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12369263214193333422noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-59346041246538109122015-01-22T14:02:17.726+00:002015-01-22T14:02:17.726+00:00You could also take the angle "We don't h...You could also take the angle "We don't have such a system in place so we won't" such as some mobile operators took with ACR in PECR.Craig Newburyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11223370281692512777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-13441664173260583342015-01-21T14:39:51.675+00:002015-01-21T14:39:51.675+00:00If an ISP decided to block your site as they class...If an ISP decided to block your site as they classified it as "porn", surely you'd have a case under libel or defamation. It'll be quite interesting as then they may have to provide a definition of porn which covers your site but not their own - and if they say it was blocked by mistake, it still happened and cost you time and money to investigate as well as making people think you were promoting that sort of content....Richy Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11328244621821820978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-29812859914252171632015-01-21T12:39:19.495+00:002015-01-21T12:39:19.495+00:00Indeed, and that is yet another good angle.Indeed, and that is yet another good angle.RevKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369263214193333422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-80387635586934199102015-01-21T12:38:31.986+00:002015-01-21T12:38:31.986+00:00A different look at it is, as you asked what could...A different look at it is, as you asked what could you do, if an ISP filter blocked your blog, would be to take the 'defamation' angle. Most ISP filters are for porn/piracy. By blocking you, they'd be implying strongly that you were a pornographer, or a pirate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-17393241275765826172015-01-21T09:52:06.339+00:002015-01-21T09:52:06.339+00:00If ever there was a request, e.g. court order unde...If ever there was a request, e.g. court order under copyright, I might try this as a challenge. We have the "we don't have any blocking systems, so it'll cost you" anyway for that, but this would one to try as well. Not happened yet.RevKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369263214193333422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-55436414498827178922015-01-20T21:42:22.528+00:002015-01-20T21:42:22.528+00:00With your AAISP hat on, you should ask your MP, &...With your AAISP hat on, you should ask your MP, "If the government asks us to block a website, are they asking us to commit an illegal act."Alan Cliffordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07203284236816302240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-61428400218530408722015-01-20T19:35:56.705+00:002015-01-20T19:35:56.705+00:00We have them under svn, but not highlighted. Happy...We have them under svn, but not highlighted. Happy to provide a diff for anyone if asked.RevKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369263214193333422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-3319935999258338922015-01-20T19:34:46.381+00:002015-01-20T19:34:46.381+00:00With the changes of the terms do you keep the old ...With the changes of the terms do you keep the old versions and highlight the changes? Shaun McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17553005098009873884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-76475605336762475962015-01-20T19:14:53.725+00:002015-01-20T19:14:53.725+00:00I saw that — it's on my list of "if it go...I saw that — it's on my list of "if it goes to a public hearing, I'd see if I might be allowed to sit in" cases!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18427000118752159232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-13620796459329341562015-01-20T19:10:59.243+00:002015-01-20T19:10:59.243+00:00I have a case now - defendant offered to pay £100 ...I have a case now - defendant offered to pay £100 but to pay it to NSPCC! He even stated so in defence, which I am hoping addresses the matter of "value" of damages if/when we have a hearing.RevKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369263214193333422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-88379869454043033502015-01-20T19:09:21.753+00:002015-01-20T19:09:21.753+00:00There is very little written about the reality of ...There is very little written about the reality of securing damages for breach of the ePrivacy directive in terms of spam, which is one of the reasons I've expressed my keenness on here to hear when people are taking action and, to the extent anyone is happy to share such things, to see what people submit and sit in on court cases. I'd like to write an article about it, even though I am really supposed to be focussing my writing on other things at the moment :)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18427000118752159232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-47162286646804220292015-01-20T19:06:11.201+00:002015-01-20T19:06:11.201+00:00Oh, and every contract related case starts with &q...Oh, and every contract related case starts with "show me the contract"...RevKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369263214193333422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-5632443818308384042015-01-20T19:05:34.137+00:002015-01-20T19:05:34.137+00:00That is one reason I have done quite a few county ...That is one reason I have done quite a few county court cases for things like spam and late payment penalties - to understand the practical process. So few get to a real judge, but they are massively informative when they do.RevKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369263214193333422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-91209198547185924822015-01-20T19:03:51.187+00:002015-01-20T19:03:51.187+00:00Indeed, and I am sure you appreciate also that &qu...Indeed, and I am sure you appreciate also that "technically correct as a matter of law" does not necessarily mean "case found in your favour, if it gets heard at all"! One of the interesting distinctions between law in academia and law in practice, where "knowing the law" is just a tiny (albeit, in my view, important) part of the overall picture.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18427000118752159232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-67252977127337277172015-01-20T18:57:01.942+00:002015-01-20T18:57:01.942+00:00Interesting, one day maybe. But as you say, I am s...Interesting, one day maybe. But as you say, I am sure as an ISP we are fine, but you know I like to be "technically correct" if at all possible, hence the extra para in the terms now. Good suggestion.RevKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369263214193333422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-70204383390908226852015-01-20T18:55:29.639+00:002015-01-20T18:55:29.639+00:00Absolutely - very interesting debate, and, were I ...Absolutely - very interesting debate, and, were I acting for an ISP, I would of course be making an argument that this kind of blocking is entirely lawful and nothing to do with computer misuse.<br /><br />(If you do think about studying law in the sense of doing something formal, I'd recommend either Ian Walden's LLM in computer and communications law at Queen Mary, or Ian Lloyd's LLM in telecoms law through Southampton. I suspect that, unless you want to dig through the basis of trusts under English property law, or consider the legitimacy of co-regulation under EU law, an undergraduate law degree is not the way to go. Although I survived :))Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18427000118752159232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-54778201181463562122015-01-20T18:47:56.587+00:002015-01-20T18:47:56.587+00:00Brilliant. Yes, I can see that being a problem - s...Brilliant. Yes, I can see that being a problem - so I now have to make it that you, as customer, indemnify us against such actions. I'll adjust accordingly.RevKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369263214193333422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-65754771755875616672015-01-20T18:47:05.766+00:002015-01-20T18:47:05.766+00:00LOL, yes, but you find that most consumer contract...LOL, yes, but you find that most consumer contracts do indeed allow for unilateral changes with consequences such as early termination being allowed. We do spell that out, and so I think we meet the normal consumer contract and unfair contract terms rules quite well. At the end of the day, if you are unhappy with the change, you can terminate, or we can agree to offer the contract without the change applied for the term at our choice. Given that the consent to restrict the service is not just implicit but in the terms anyway before, I suspect "authorisation" under CMA is clear anyway. Again, a fun debate, and one day I must study law properly.RevKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369263214193333422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-11809245182138577772015-01-20T18:46:26.491+00:002015-01-20T18:46:26.491+00:00Not that your contractual change matters anyway. M...Not that your contractual change matters anyway. My wife owns all the kit on our home network, but I am the subscriber with AAISP. I can't sign away my wife's rights, and she is not a party to our contract, so, even though *I* may give authorisation, since it's my wife's computer with which you would be interfering, you're still on the hook!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18427000118752159232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-7222247162016293422015-01-20T18:44:04.547+00:002015-01-20T18:44:04.547+00:00> Unless the contract allowed for such unilater...> Unless the contract allowed for such unilateral changes<br /><br />The contract might purport to allow for unilateral changes, but whether that is actually a valid, enforceable term in a contract with a consumer, I am less sure.<br /><br />(Whether I would suffer any damage if it gives rise to immediate termination right, is perhaps different, although I suspect I could make a reasonable enough argument on that in a small claims court, given that we have a big nasty telco stamping on a poor little unrepresented consumer...)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18427000118752159232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-64237191508711355462015-01-20T18:42:37.153+00:002015-01-20T18:42:37.153+00:00You also have the very realistic possibility that ...You also have the very realistic possibility that a judge would consider the fact that the contract allows for suspension and restriction and maintenance to mean that the authorisation to impact access to your computers was implicit in those terms anyway. I have just made it more explicit now :-) Nice debating it though.RevKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369263214193333422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-63554712848753914402015-01-20T18:40:32.736+00:002015-01-20T18:40:32.736+00:00FYI services terms under suspension and terminatio...FYI services terms under suspension and termination...RevKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369263214193333422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-43914176820002642782015-01-20T18:39:58.465+00:002015-01-20T18:39:58.465+00:00Unless the contract allowed for such unilateral ch...Unless the contract allowed for such unilateral changes, and even defined consequences that would apply and options to terminate early and so - oh, wait, it does.RevKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369263214193333422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-60709005796460823652015-01-20T18:39:03.780+00:002015-01-20T18:39:03.780+00:00I couldn't immediately spot the change but, si...I couldn't immediately spot the change but, since it's a unilateral modification to a contract anyway, it clearly can't apply in respect of my current contract with you. I reckon that you are on the hook for anything AAISP does now which causes my line to reboot between now and the beginning of the next billing period at the very least.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18427000118752159232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-48666921218321951032015-01-20T18:29:02.984+00:002015-01-20T18:29:02.984+00:00Ah, an action relating to our LNS and provisioning...Ah, an action relating to our LNS and provisioning system is fine as we authorise ourselves to do that :-) But you may be right for access to your computers on your home network, and as such the terms have indeed been updated as you suggest.RevKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369263214193333422noreply@blogger.com