tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post8676153444744692910..comments2024-03-28T09:19:27.451+00:00Comments on RevK<sup>®</sup>'s ramblings: Air conditioning at home (planning permission!)RevKhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12369263214193333422noreply@blogger.comBlogger64125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-41367435992580832032024-03-25T13:52:45.617+00:002024-03-25T13:52:45.617+00:00I believe that UK air source heat pumps won't ...I believe that UK air source heat pumps won't do cooling as well, which means they can be VAT exempt, however some are only a firmware flash or a config but change away from matching their EU cousins, which do do cooling 😁Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-17528211541683365592023-11-20T15:15:20.579+00:002023-11-20T15:15:20.579+00:00It's worse... you won't want to put anythi...It's worse... you won't want to put anything on a commercial property without speaking to the local council first. They can advise ahead of time what you'll need to do.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-4041125944441583352023-11-18T23:57:43.676+00:002023-11-18T23:57:43.676+00:00What about commercial buildings - do the same pann...What about commercial buildings - do the same panning rules apply? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-57348333444602729492023-09-28T11:12:53.883+01:002023-09-28T11:12:53.883+01:00> "I am sure it complies, if you believe i...> "I am sure it complies, if you believe it does not then you get a noise consultant", and they accepted it<br /><br />I am jealous! :p The person I was dealing with wouldn't take any face-value assertions and wanted a noise consultant's report before I could proceed. They rejected the initial planning application without it saying they believed it would be too noisy even though no-one had complained and the damn things are whisper quiet in normal operation.<br /><br />At any rate, I'm glad it's all over. They gave me three years to comply with the updated application so I've got a bit of time to remove them from my uk house and take them over to portugal in the car. I'm probably gonna put the UK house on the market as well. Would prefer to sell before the catastrophe that is the UK economy eats a good chunk of my equity. :(<br /><br />I love this country but I'm very frustrated by the unreasonable overly bureaucratic council and inability to use common sense instead of heavy handed approaches. I honestly couldn't understand why an enquiry about PP on my property was seen as equivelant to a complaint. At one point on the phone with the girl doing the enforcement, she even slipped up and said, "well there was a complaint about your air-con, that's why we are doing this" and I said "no, there was an enquiry, no complaint has been registered, check your records". Her response was dismissive.Rob Evansnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-1296237914990109012023-09-28T11:01:33.816+01:002023-09-28T11:01:33.816+01:00We are on the same page that aircon and heat pumps...We are on the same page that aircon and heat pumps are effectively the same technology, even the planning office agrees however they have determined that “aircon” is not permitted under section G, in my head it is very clear that aircon primarily used to cool otherwise why are you fitting it in the first place. I understand both sides of the debate, you can simply fit one unit and argue its an ASHP if challenged and I think that has merit but lets be clear the reality is you are not using it to only heat but to cool. If you have more than one unit then this is not defensible for ground G as it stipulates you are only allowed 1 unit anyway. The point that is being made is simply fit the unit(s) on the basis that it could be challenged within 4 years, but the council will only enforce if raised to their attention. Basically they don’t care unless someone complains then the burden of proof will sit with you to convince them otherwise. This has clearly happened to you hence the blog but other will “get away with it” or ignorance is-bliss.Jasonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-15693654591717852402023-09-28T10:07:31.355+01:002023-09-28T10:07:31.355+01:00As for noise, I basically got as far as saying &qu...As for noise, I basically got as far as saying "I am sure it complies, if you believe it does not then you get a noise consultant", and they accepted it. I was able to confirm that is it turned out later that it did not comply I would have to go through the process again and make changes, but no "fine" or anything, so on that basis I said "it complies". The neighbours (that raised the complaint) were not going to pay for a noise consultant to prove otherwise and neither were the council.RevKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369263214193333422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-11334007693016645462023-09-28T10:04:29.022+01:002023-09-28T10:04:29.022+01:00That makes no sense. It *is* a heat pump, and the ...That makes no sense. It *is* a heat pump, and the exception makes not mention of removing alternative heating as a criteria. The only issue should be the "heating only", and an air con can be set by the installer to be "heating only" AFAIK. But yeh, planning permission is probably sensible in most/all cases. Of course one could argue that even in cooling mode it is "heating", just that it is "heating" the outside air.RevKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369263214193333422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-76256732485547264692023-09-28T09:51:01.844+01:002023-09-28T09:51:01.844+01:00Sound logic. The planning officer also agreed that...Sound logic. The planning officer also agreed that heat pumps can be used to cool and aircon can be used to heat. However this still does not fall under section G despite their similarities. The logic I came too was that when a heat pump is installed then an existing heating system is removed e.g. oil/gas boiler etc.. however aircon is only ever installed in addition to keeping the existing system. So the intent of G is to decarbonise and adding aircon is the opposite. The best advice is to just plow ahead but bear in mind you may have to apply for PP if you are challenged within 4 years.Jasonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-30744599150299538092023-09-27T19:23:00.758+01:002023-09-27T19:23:00.758+01:00@Anonymous: Posted an update at the end of this th...@Anonymous: Posted an update at the end of this thread under "Rob Evans". You can read all about it there :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-60024126937191247082023-09-27T19:22:11.786+01:002023-09-27T19:22:11.786+01:00I concur with @Jason. After a bit of a fight with ...I concur with @Jason. After a bit of a fight with the local planning office, they said ALL air con units require planning permission. I finally got retrospective permission but ONLY AFTER REMOVING 3 units and replacing with a single triple-output unit within their noise requirements. Had to pay for a noise consultant to measure ambient noise for 24 hours, architects to draw up the plans, and now another £4k to have the old units removed and replaced with a single unit that can pipe to all three indoor locations.<br /><br />Long story short, if you want air-con, hide the outdoor unit so it cannot be seen from the outside, do not believe ANYONE who says it's within regs to have 1 unit etc etc. It's not and in our case, no complaint was made, only an "enquiry" as to if we had planning for the units or not. Regardless of the fact that no complaint was made, the council proceeded with enforcement threat if I didn't get them under proper planning.<br /><br />The whole process is complex, time consuming, frustrating and ultimately, you are better off making sure no-one ever sees the changes so you cannot get even an "enquiry". Either that, or don't install them. Installers all think 1 unit is within permitted development but every council so far people have interacted with disagree. I also tried to explain that they are heat pumps and both heat and cool but to no avail.<br /><br />Because of this and the general decline of the NHS, the economy and various other factors like inflation, we have decided to move to Portugal. Purchased a house there last month. Gonna just remove the air-con from the current UK house and take the units with me and re-install them in Portugal. I'm done with this shit.Rob Evansnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-63949054575093336742023-09-27T13:20:46.557+01:002023-09-27T13:20:46.557+01:00Final update, the council called me back and said ...Final update, the council called me back and said they gave me the wrong advise yesterday and in fact it has caused some debate in their office. They have now determined by head of planning that even one aircon unit is not allowed under permitted development and requires a full planning application. They are aware that there are many people who have them installed but are not actively looking unless a complaint is made. So unless you plan to sell your property within 4 years I would go ahead and install them and if someone complains then apply retrospectively. The websites stating that they fall under section G are incorrect.Jasonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-46639707138949923552023-09-26T16:24:35.522+01:002023-09-26T16:24:35.522+01:00Update to what I wrote. I spoke to my local planni...Update to what I wrote. I spoke to my local planning team and they confirmed that aircon and heat pumps in their view are interchangeable despite the exact legislation stating “heating only”, this is a moot point. So aircon is allowed under permitted development. So for a single unit that is fine and if I want this in writing they will issue a LDC at the cost of £110 should this ever gets challenged in the future i.e. during convacying if I sell the property. However if I require more than one unit then I will need to apply for full planning permission. I hope this helps others.Jasonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-64888465397023903162023-09-26T14:49:23.530+01:002023-09-26T14:49:23.530+01:00Great article exactly what I was looking for. You ...Great article exactly what I was looking for. You have confirmed that aircon needs permission. I'm looking to fit 2 x outside multi units so 8 rooms can be cooled. I'm going to steam ahead and gamble under the 4 year rule. I have already claimed land under 12 year adverse possession so this is "short" in comparison. :D Great articleJasonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-56280544874899331942023-09-07T06:18:36.331+01:002023-09-07T06:18:36.331+01:00This is the clearest piece of information on this ...This is the clearest piece of information on this subject on the whole of the internet. Thanks for taking the time. I got a multi split LG unit installed thinking it would not need permission since there is only one external box within 0.6 cu.m volume. It is also installed 1.2m away from the property boundary on my wall 1m above the ground. On the other other end of the 1.2m is my neighbour's garage wall, so it can't be seen from this neighbour's window, though the adjacent neighbour may be able to see it from their upstairs windows. Also realized that remortgage process may be affected by this installation as the lender may ask for a certificate of lawfulness when the time comes. I'm thinking of setting the dip switch in the unit to 'Heat Only' mode hoping then this would fall under permitted development.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-44052040992746027722023-02-14T13:00:27.725+00:002023-02-14T13:00:27.725+00:00I got retrospective planning permission.I got retrospective planning permission.RevKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369263214193333422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-86779127943330928262023-02-14T12:57:52.682+00:002023-02-14T12:57:52.682+00:00@coolbloke1324 how it all went for you? did you ge...@coolbloke1324 how it all went for you? did you get the planning permission and did you have any problems? I'm in the process if applying for mine, I have 2 on the side and one at the back, and one neighbour complained so I wonder what the outcome will be but they at least 1.8m from boundary and even further away from her hallway/toilet window. and her house is much lower so they are in the roof level .... Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-48190985746600035572022-07-13T19:36:53.799+01:002022-07-13T19:36:53.799+01:00I am looking at this in 2022 and have actually ado...I am looking at this in 2022 and have actually adopted the "shed lean-to" idea. Ironically, the planning consultant I have initially reached out to has stated that the installation of the condenser units inside the shed lean-to would (surprise surprise) require planning permission! This is despite the fact that the external appearance of the property is not altered at all!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-13062503652642977782021-11-16T16:57:03.354+00:002021-11-16T16:57:03.354+00:00Hey dude. I'm in a similar situation and wonde...Hey dude. I'm in a similar situation and wondering about the noise aspect of things. Do you know what the dB(A) noise output on your units was? I've got a couple and one is 52 dB(A) and the other is 60 dB(A) as the spec says, "taken 1.0m below the outdoor unit".<br /><br />My closest neighbour is at least 3 metres away from the units (and he says he cannot hear a thing when they are on) so I'm wondering what your spec was and the distance from your neighbour was?coolbloke1324https://www.blogger.com/profile/13883530466342507721noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-59422444168596735692021-07-31T12:24:02.480+01:002021-07-31T12:24:02.480+01:00That probably won't occur in say the initial a...That probably won't occur in say the initial a half year of claiming another air conditioner yet after that measure of time, such issues are essentially unavoidable. berryhenryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13428270027091002060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-36835133732589926842021-06-05T23:12:14.903+01:002021-06-05T23:12:14.903+01:00I agree this is a great article! Can I ask why yo...I agree this is a great article! Can I ask why you’d need planning permission if the unit is on the ground and not fastened to the house? We put ours on the wall and had no idea we needed planning permission until last month! Luckily we are 3 weeks away from hitting the 4 year mark but interested if we ever decide to move house!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-54837688226185621862021-05-29T16:14:55.260+01:002021-05-29T16:14:55.260+01:00Returning to this post having looked up planning p...Returning to this post having looked up planning permission, first of all this is the clearest article I can find online about what the planning permission rules for aircon are. Far clearer than local council, UK government, or aircon installer web sites, so thanks for that.<br /><br />My aircon installers told me I didn't need planning permission as a) I only have one unit (wrong, it cools so not covered) and b) it's sat on the ground not fastened to the house so wouldn't need planning permission anyway (also wrong).<br /><br />But I'm now well over 4 years since installation, it's been about 7 years now so all this is irrelevant. And I do still have the paperwork from installation so I can prove it.Owen Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00890951742186614705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-73739039762078357432020-10-24T11:39:26.653+01:002020-10-24T11:39:26.653+01:00Not sure why you quoted my exact comment, but, err...Not sure why you quoted my exact comment, but, err, ok...RevKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369263214193333422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-88634745040416037682020-10-24T11:34:32.001+01:002020-10-24T11:34:32.001+01:00There was only one their side, they can’t see it f...There was only one their side, they can’t see it from their garden, nor from the road, and it is very quiet. You have to stand right at the far end of their garden to even tell it is on. And they took over 3 years to mention it. So yes!jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14827917508709596750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-73191451826178695642020-10-22T05:45:37.671+01:002020-10-22T05:45:37.671+01:00There was only one their side, they can’t see it f...There was only one their side, they can’t see it from their garden, nor from the road, and it is very quiet. You have to stand right at the far end of their garden to even tell it is on. And they took over 3 years to mention it. So yes!RevKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369263214193333422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3993498847203183398.post-30821102350573249652020-10-21T21:13:20.288+01:002020-10-21T21:13:20.288+01:00My neighbour put one up the day someone was viewin...My neighbour put one up the day someone was viewing our house for sale - didn't see him for dust. Ugly noisy things and you are surprised that your neighbour had concerns over three of the buggers, when you hadn't warned him first?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14897498360410421538noreply@blogger.com