Import Duty

Latest update on import Duty and VAT.

VAT is sorted for most couriers (well DHL and FedEx) as postponed VAT accounting. This is mostly automatic.

For duty we have an HMRC account now, all works. We advised DHL and they were helpful which was shocking. We have now received our first import delivery with duty, albeit £7.25. Emails from DHL about it. Statement from HMRC. I expect the direct debit soon from HMRC. ZERO ADMIN FEE from DHL.

This is finally clean, and no stupid admin fees. DHL for the win. Well done.

I have emailed FedEx and they are struggling to handle it, so yeh, not good. Hopefully we sort with them soon.

But DHL are still arseholes, sorry.

Before this import was one with £5.76 duty, which sort of kicked off sorting this all. They invoiced £5.76 plus a £5 admin fee.

To be clear, we have no contract with DHL, their contract is with the sender.

What is extra fun is when they told us, before delivery, we said "but we have a duty deferment account at HMRC" (not realising this needed setting up in advance with DHL), but also advising our published terms which state a charge of £20+VAT admin fee for payment demands from couriers.

Even after that they delivered - in my view that means they have accepted our terms.

Invoice for £10.76

However, being generous, and as they had actually been helpful getting the duty account all sorted, I confirmed we would pay the £10.76 and checked bank details for this. We paid it on 9th Nov, including the £5 admin fee we never agreed. We quoted the reference they asked us to.

Note, if you pay A&A with right reference it appears in your A&A account in seconds, you are immediately emailed a statement, and if clearing an overdue debt your services are instantly re-instated, 24/7 automatically. Handling incoming payments (especially if they have the correct payment reference) is not hard, honest.

Threat of legal action

Today (13th) I get a threat off legal action for £10.76. Yes, the £10.76 I generously paid (generous as it included £5 I never contracted for or agreed).

You can imagine the reply I have now sent...

Fucking arseholes!

Don't use UPS

I know I said before, but this is an update on the saga.

Executive summary

• I had 4 parcels sent from China (same sender) via UPS, all marked with our VAT and EORI.
• UPS tried to charge a fee, it seems contrary to HMRC advice they do not do Postponed VAT Accounting by default.
• I refused delivery and they confirmed return to sender (I confirmed the rest by email), but only sent 3 of the parcels back.
• They told the sender the missing parcel had been disposed off.
• They told me the missing parcel had been abandoned because "the sender is not served by UPS", something that is clearly a lie.
• They have invoiced for VAT (and an un-agreed disbursement fee) for all 4 parcels, and then late payment penalties.
• It has taken over 6 weeks for this to get close to being resolved.
• Use DHL, or maybe FedEx. Don't use UPS!

Postponed VAT Accounting (PVA)

I've explained PVA, but basically a VAT registered business getting overseas deliveries should get them without paying a fee if the sender includes the VAT/EORI when sending, that is HMRC advice to couriers. It gets declared on import and we (recipient) get paperwork from HMRC to ensure we account for it and the reclaimed VAT on next VAT return. Simple, easy, no admin fees, no delays.

• DHL manage it - not problem
• FedEx manage it - usually - not always - but seem to cave when pointed out.
• UPS want a separate signed agreement with us and the sender, and extra paperwork by the sender on every shipment. No way random foreign senders will do this. It is just, in my view, incompetent. Senders know to do VAT/EORI, but not extra UPS paperwork.

What did they do wrong?

I did try a parcel via UPS and it all worked well, but the good value of the parcel was $2, one of JLCs super discounted bare PCBs. That arrived, no fees, no invoices. Surprising. That lulled me in to a false sense of security and 4 more orders were shipped using UPS. Big mistake.

First arrived and driver wants a fee paid, I said no. I actually include the VAT on the address as an address line as well as on the waybill so I pointed to the VAT number on the label and explained it should be PVA. He had no idea, and literally threw the parcel back in the van.

Of the 4 parcelled, one other was tried and my wife rejected it. On that occasion the driver was very used to such things saying loads of people reject parcels with fees - usually because they paid fees to sender to handle and UPS cocked up (slightly different to out case). This really says something of UPS's competence.

The tracking showed each of the 4 parcels having multiple refused deliveries, this was clearly a lie. Not their first.

They took weeks to send 3 of the parcels back to sender. I guess they can take as long as they like. But when only 3 arrived we asked questions. They told the sender the parcel was disposed of. This was a lie, what a surprise.

They told me it was abandoned. It took weeks to get the explanation that "the sender is not serviced by UPS". This is a lie, wow.

They sent an invoice for the abandoned parcel (VAT and disbursement fee), which is not valid, obviously. I checked the HMRC import records and they only recorded (and hence paid HMRC) for the other 3 parcels. They were charging me for VAT they apparently have not paid HMRC. That sounds really fraudulent to me.

They sent invoices for the other three, even though returned to sender.

They kept quoting their terms and conditions that they can basically lose or destroy a parcel and not be liable to anyone. Wow! I have repeatedly had to explain that I am not subject to their terms and conditions. I have not agreed them. I am not a customer. I have no contract with them.

I have explained that if they have appropriated my parcel, that is Theft, a criminal matter. If they have lied ("sender is not served by UPS") to do that, then that is Fraud, a criminal matter. I was getting nowhere.

Surprise!

To my utter shock, they sent back the missing parcel to China. It arrived there after many weeks. The UK UPS contact seems unaware of this?!

But then, I get an invoice for late payment penalties - even though I have no contract with them that could lead to such penalties. Even statutory late payments penalties are a statutory contract term and don't apply if no contract. This is verging on harassment.

They have, eventually, cancelled invoices and late payment penalties. I have not seen any attempt for them to correct the HMRC import VAT reports though.

Update:

We are late March now. They are no longer chasing invoices or late payments, but would not accept that late payments are invalid and they should refund every customer (late payments are statutory as part of a commercial contract which does not exist in this case).

But they are now hassling JLC, the sender, saying a parcel is stuck in customs awaiting payment of duty. It is almost tempting to pay it and then claim damages when they fail to deliver the parcel (the one they sent back to China months ago).

Deliveries from China

I have PCBs made in China (well Hong Kong).

This is all my many small PCB projects (not FireBrick). I would rather use UK suppliers but I am sorry, even for just 5 PCBs, populated or unpopulated, even with carrier charges, China is way cheaper, I mean a *LOT* cheaper, and generally even faster. I'd love UK companies to up their game, and cope, and I have spoken to some, but they cannot get close. If they could get close, I'd got for it. It is a shame.

Duty and VAT

So, I have had to learn how it works. Before Brexit there was some stuff that worked well from EU. But in the last few years things have changed (not just because of Brexit), and now there are some things that are, honestly, better.

If you have ever ordered something as an individual from overseas, and it is over the small "gift" or "minimum" level where they don't care, you will have been hit with a surcharge by the courier. Often on the doorstep as a surprise.

This has three parts potentially.

1. Duty - some levy on some types of goods. The government have a moderately sane web site for this (https://trade-tariff.service.gov.uk/find_commodity) which helps you work it out. The system itself seems insane, and a minefield, but the web site helps. My experience is "duty" never applies to any of the bits we order, thankfully.
2. VAT - this applies always
3. Courier admin fee

The last part if the big problem, in my view. Handling customs, duty, and VAT, is an inherent part of the process of being an international courier. It is no more an unexpected cost than paying for petrol for their delivery vans. Yet, somehow, they decide they will charge the recipient for this admin work and not make it simply part of the cost of shipping.

This is simple for them, as they can legally expect the recipient to pay Duty and VAT so they add their bit. Refuse to pay and they won't deliver. It is a basic lien / or blackmail. In my view it should not be allowed. Royal Mail actually have legislation to allow it (!) which shows that it should not normally be allowed (i.e. if it can just apply normally then Royal Mail would not need special legislation for it).

The recipient has no contract with the courier. They have not agreed a price for service the courier has chosen to provide. Even if they accept they provide the service that is logically the start of negotiation on a fair price. As a consumer even an implied contract like this would be unfair and so not enforceable. But they have you over a barrel.

Postponed VAT accounting

If you are receiving goods as a company, well, as anyone VAT registered, things are better, finally.

It used to be you paid the courier, and their admin fee. You then battled to get a formal VAT invoice from them (not easy if payment collected on the doorstep). Then you included that VAT (not their admin fee) in your next VAT return to reclaim it - up to 3 months later.

End result - not paying VAT. But impacting cash flow, and you paid an admin fee.

Postponed VAT accounting changed that - you account for the fact you should have paid VAT on imports, and that you are claiming it back, in the totals on the next VAT return (surprisingly not separate fields for that). But you don't pay VAT on import. Obviously they get the tax when you finally sell with VAT at the final (higher) price.

This gives the courier no excuse to charge an admin fee - yay!

DHL, FedEx, UPS

The three main couriers used by JLC seem to be DHL, FedEx, and UPS. They have different prices and delivery speeds. FedEx is arguably the cheapest, and works (though hassle with them insisting on a signature). UPS are next. DHL cost more, but probably fastest. Until recently I was using DHL. I made the mistake of trying the others.

• DHL are quick, text/email progress, text/email on the day with time window, even live tracking the van, cope with leaving on doorstep if I ask, and handle Postponed VAT Accounting no problem.
• FedEx are OK, not the same progress messages, struggle to "leave on doorstep", but do handle Postponed VAT accounting
• UPS are idiots. Slow. No updates. And it seems have no clue on Postponed VAT accounting, so insist on charging on delivery, and their admin fee is expensive (more than difference in courier costs).

So, obvious lesson, do not use UPS, as they cost more in admin fee than it is paying DHL to send in the first place.

Don't use UPS, simple as that!

In practice the few orders using UPS in the pipeline are literally going to be returned to China, at UPSs cost, if they cannot work it out, and then I'll pay for delivery by DHL. This is slightly more than UPS admin fee, but it is the principle - I want UPS to suffer the cost of returning to China for their stupidity, and I've learned to never, ever, use them again, and tell you the same.

Just to add, we now have several supposed "delivery attempts" which I can prove with extensive CCTV were not, in fact, attempted, by UPS, over the last few days. Why do that?!?

Pre-pay

Another option is have JLC send via a courier but with pre-paid duty. Same set of couriers.

This is bad for several reasons - for a start the extra they charge up front is not the normal 20% VAT. It seems a random and larger amount. I have no clue why! But also it is not a VAT invoice, so you can't easily reclaim the VAT! To be fair getting a VAT invoice from couriers paid on receipt is not easy either.

It may work for an individual who cannot reclaim VAT, as may be cheaper done this way than VAT and admin fee on receipt. So worth considering in such cases.

Duty

I mentioned duty. This is not the same as VAT (which a business can reclaim). You have to pay it.

Duty applies on some specific classes of goods, from specific countries, and it really is very specific! It is basically politics.

Thankfully JLC are not totally daft - I can say the category for the goods, ensure it is right, and not have duty charged. I only got that wrong once, and had a couple of pounds duty (plus a courier admin fee)!

If you have to pay duty, tough, it may be that with enough imports an "account" somehow with chosen courier can avoid admin feeds for these. Not 100% sure. Thankfully we don't do stuff that needs duty.

It is nice that JLC offer a clear choice of couriers.

What is really nice is when sender will work with you to ensure clear and accurate marking of the goods. For a recent order from China (not PCBs this time) I searched on that duty checking page and identified the exact description and "category code" and the sender agreed to clearly use that wording and code on the parcel to avoid issues. I hope it works (will find out in 30 to 60 days).

Dissolvable PVA support

The TAZ Pro has two extruders which allows me to try and use dissolvable PVA support. Support is simple enough but hard to remove from the print cleanly, so using PVA allows extra options - just dissolve it!

I have had to play with the Simpify3D settings a bit as the settings for the TAZ 6 did not quite work. I am not sure if the bed is different, the nozzle, or what but my prints were almost welded to the bed. I have tweak the settings for nice clean prints with nGen now. The next challenge was settings for PVA supports.

I ordered some from RS (yes, the price was not silly, strangely), part 174-0082. Well, actually I ordered from someone else, and realised wrong diameter, after opening it, D'Oh, but now I have the right stuff I googled a bit to find temperature.

It is funny stuff, and I ended up printing at 205C which is apparently on the high side. I could also see from simply feeding the filament that it came out thick and slow (around 1mm).

The key setting needed to stop it just curling up was speed - it needs to be very slow. In the end I ran with 2x multiplier, 1mm wide, 20% print speed, and that actually worked. Well, mostly (the eyes went a tad wonky, but worked).

For a start, the PVA comes away from the model really easily, so that is a good start.

Then, put in warm water for a while to remove the last bits, and yay, it worked.

Now to try something more complex with enclosed parts that simply could not have been printed before.