Pick a card, any card... @monzo a winner

I have blogged a few times on issues with banks, and indeed, only yesterday, had the fun with Barclays wanting me to text a short code after they authorised a card payment.

So I thought it time to give a bit of a review of a couple of cards for personal use, Monzo and Starling, and how my views have changed slightly.

For my non techie friends and relatives - download the Monzo app on your smart phone and follow the instructions to get one now... Just do it!

Summary

I prefer Monzo now, they are a proper bank now, and less hassle. I am recommending Monzo to my friends.

Both Monzo and Starling accounts have a number of key features:-

• Instant set up using a smart phone - you need photo of ID and short video clip and your details, and sorted.
• Both have "account switch" systems to move DDs and payments from another bank, but you don't need to close your existing bank account - nothing stops you having more than one bank!
• The account does all the usual things like direct debits, faster payments, and so on. You can have you salary paid in to them. They are proper bank accounts.
• Both offer overdrafts.
• Both do Apple pay.
• Both do live updates of spending on the phone app.
• Both allow third parties to send money using a debit card! i.e. charge someone's debit card to put money in to your account. That is cool, you can send someone a link to pay you money!
• Both allow API integration with your own systems so you can see transaction details live on your own computer system if you are geeky enough to want that. It is cool for geeks, honest.
• Both allow you to disable and re-enable the card as you wish.
• Both allow separate spending pots / savings pots to partition off your money.

There is not a lot to decide between them, but I have listed some of the key differences I have noted below and why I prefer Monzo now.

I feel they are especially good for anyone living on a budget and wanting to carefully manage their money.

Monzo

I got a Monzo card when it was in beta (my son got one in alpha), and was a pre-payment Mastercard with quite a nice phone app. Back then there was a waiting list even. I used in UK and US and worked well.

It has moved on massively since then. It is a proper bank, and they have neat features like warning you of a Direct Debit the day before, and you have to love the "ka-ching" sound when using the card. They now have Apple pay as well.

Some key advantages to Monzo:-

• The app clearly shows the limits on usage, e.g. daily card usage amounts and so on.
• They have a warning of DD payments the day before.
• They show declined card transactions and the reason why declined, very useful if there is some fraud, or you simply mistyped the expiry date!
• The API (and app) has way more detail including sender bank sort code and account number and showing the proper reference on payments and Direct Debits.
• The "ka-ching" sound effect when you spend money
• Really simple means to send payments between Monzo card holders you know, or near you, and the reference allows lots of text and even emojis, and reaction emojis as well making easy to acknowledge a payment with a smiley face.
• That really bright orange!

Starling

I got a Starling card later than Monzo, and one of the key things that impressed me was the instant set up. At the time Monzo had a waiting list which I am assuming they do not now. Also, not only did I have a working bank account in minutes, with sort code and account number, it was on Apple pay instantly even before I has the card. Next day it popped up offering an overdraft (though I don't use one). The day after the card arrived and it was in very cool packaging!

Whilst Apple pay is a bit gimmicky, I do like it, and use it, so I started using Starling for my day to day spending instead of Monzo. I also asked them about spending limits on the card as the app does not show it and they said there was no limit. With that I decide Starling was the card for me and pretty much stopped using Monzo at all. Indeed, a card that would just work for any amount I had on it, that was going to be my main bank account now. Finally a card that would do what I wonder, or so I thought.

I ran in to a few snags and basically they were not interested in fixing at all. One was that there were no details of sender sort code and account on payments, and another is the Direct Debits do not show the actual payment reference so you cannot relate to a specific DD notice for an individual invoice. Whilst both are minor issues, my concern was their reluctance to do anything or consider either an issue.

Then, recently, I found that they misled me over the spending limit on the card and actually it is £10,000. They also said that fast payments were £10,000 in 24 hours too, so having moved money to Starling to pay something more than £10,000 (only option was a single transaction for full amount as was on a web site) I could not move all the money back to a different account. It then turns out that this was also mis-information and that the £10,000 fast payment limit is per transaction! To this day I don't know if the £10,000 card limit is per transaction or per day...

To my surprise, even days after alerting them to these issues and misinformation a friend contacted me to ask about Starling limits as they too had multiple contradictory statements from Starling about limits, and they wanted to buy a £16,000 car but did not want embarrassment by having the card declined. They too were considering new banks like Starling because of the hassle of traditional banks and their over zealous and often misdirected "fraud protection" systems, and the appalling way you are treated once they are triggered. So it seems Starling have not learned. This is a real shame. Mistakes are one thing, not learning is another.

Now Monzo have Apple pay, I have basically stopped using Starling. Monzo have limits but they say what they are in the app, no ambiguity!

Their only possible saving grace is that Starling do business accounts now (in limited cases), and if that has a sane API (with sender sort code and account as well as full reference) that may be useful.

To be fair, some other features...

• Pay interest on credit balances, which is nice.
• Do some stuff with € it seems.
• It seems foreign cash withdrawals may be better.

Amex

Clearly neither Monzo nor Starling will help with any larger transactions. Monzo is great for day to day spending, but if and when I want to spend more, I cannot trust them to work because of usage limits. Also, I am wary of Barclays or Lloyds or other banks because of the hassle and attitude the second you trip their fraud systems. To be honest the attitude is perhaps the worst part.

So, it seems, the best way forward is an Amex card. They have a reputation for not dicking people about. I hope it is well founded. Early days (1st month) but we will see. So far only hassle is pizza hut don't seem to take Amex. Otherwise no problems at all. I'll blog more on this if/when I really put them to the test but that may be some time. It is almost sad that I am deliberately putting everything I do through Amex to make sure they build up my credit rather than using Monzo.

The good news is they do have an app and it has real time alerts. It is a bit odd, in fact, as the alerts flag up in the Apple Wallet in real time, and the Amex app lags behind by minutes. But the end result is I can see spending in real time just the same Monzo or Starling, which is nice. It also means any fraud can be sorted really quickly.


I hope that has been useful - I appreciate an Amex card is not for everyone - I have a wide range of readers and friends and I know some have used Amex Platinum for years (and have more money than sense, some of them), but some have almost no income and struggle, so it is a tad hard making a blog post that works for that range of people - maybe I have succeeded this time. I know that, thinking back to when I was really broke, a Monzo card would have been perfect.

Real banks are shit, but "challenger" banks are more shit, maybe?

[I've added some constructive comments at the end of the blog now]

I have had a lot of issues with Barclays over the years, especially where card payments are declined for no good reason (and where they allow fraudulent ones that are so obvious to anyone that it is fraud, against Barclays, it is unbelievable).

So I am very wary of using Barclays for anything, and hence have Monzo and Starling accounts. Both are great at letting you know what happens in real time on mobile apps and recommended to most of my friends. For most people both work well, but I have to say I would now recommend Monzo.

But, it seems, neither can do the job of a "proper" bank, in my view.

I am booking a cruise with my (rich) friends. As I have blogged before we take turns for holidays, and between us we are doing another cruise. The total comes to more than £10k between us. I'll no doubt post pictures and videos at the time (next month). I know that is a lot of money.

So, paying over £10k on my Barclays card - risky - it could bounce, decline, fail, go wrong in so many ways, and I am wary. As I say, it is a lot of money. To be honest the most likely is they allow the cruise and then block my card without telling me and make my life difficult when I want to buy a coffee.

But I have my shiny new Starling Bank card, and I asked them, back in December, if there are any spending limits using the card. I was advised of top up, and ATM usage limits and told that otherwise there was no limit. I asked at the time as we were sorting a rather expensive car for my son, and wanted to ensure it worked. Sadly Tesla don't take debit cards (WTF?) so was not the issue. Seems it would have been if they did!

I have spent the last 6 months thinking my Starling card had no spending limit, so I decided the safest tactic for this cruise was move the money to Starling, and then pay on card. They declined it! UNLIKE Monzo they do not log or show they declined it on the app. I had to ask on the chat thing. They declined as they have a £10k limit. It seems that previously they LIED TO ME about the limits, or lack thereof.

Now I find they can do nothing to fix this, and I cannot even send the money BACK to my Barclays account to try paying with the Barclays debit card as sending money out has the same limit! Before you ask, yes, I tried to resolve this with them before making a blog post and putting on twitter - had they resolved it, e.g. "I'll temporarily allow a higher level, try now", then I would have been impressed and not cross at all.

This is starting to be show stopping for use of Starling, and I will go back to Monzo for some stuff and Barclays for other. It really seems that these "challenger" banks are just playing around and not "proper" banks at all. Shame.

Anyway, the money, carefully collected together, is held to ransom almost, in my Starling account, and I do not want to lose the cruise booking over this. So I decide, that is OK, I can borrow from my mortgage reserve for a few days. I am not above using my mortgage reserve for a holiday, that is what these things are for. What do I find?, well Barclays have broken the mortgage contract (IMHO) and reduced my reserve with no notice to only £1k available. What the hell? If we manage to get this cruise sorted it will be a miracle. So I'm threatening to sue Barclays now over that...

Seriously, do no "proper" banks exist?

P.S. I could not send the money back to another account (well not all of it) as they stated there was a £10k “in any 24 hours” limit. However, experimenting, you can simply send more than one payment in a row. So yet more misinformation.

What would help is:-

• Clearly stating actual limits in the app like Monzo do,
• Ensuring staff understand and can explain them correctly.
• Allowing customers to change them to suit their spending, ie £10k is way too high for a lot of people who would be happier with a much lower limit
• Allow time limited pre-advice of large payment via app with face/finger security, and password, and PIN or whatever.
• Please have the app show when a card is declined, and the reason, like Monzo do!
• Maybe even a link/button to "enabled this transaction if you would like to try again in next hour" restricting to exact amount and merchant to exceed a limit...

Slightly frustrated with Starling bank...

Both Monzo and Starling are good, and it seems Starling are a bit ahead with things like Apple Pay (have Monzo done that yet?). They are also launching a business account soon, which will be very interesting, providing they fix some of these issues...

Anyway, one thing that surprises me is that Starling seem very poor at addressing small bugs. After all, both of these are new banks and should be taking on the feedback people give them.

I have raised two issues, and it seems to me that they are just ignoring them - not even "adding to the list", but basically saying they will do nothing.

1. When you get a payment (or even a DD) they do not show the other party sort-code and account number. Their response is that they "can't" show it. Which is odd. No more explanation and no indication that they will "fix" this. Why can't they show it? Clearly there is no technical issue - they see the data, but clearly there is no regulatory issue as other banks show this. Monzo show it with no problem, and other banks like Barclays will disclose it if you ask even if not shown on the statement. So it is not "secret" nor something they are not allowed to provide. It would be nice if "can't show it" was backed up with a tangible reason, but no. Nothing!

2. When you get a Direct Debit they don't show the reference. This is especially odd as the DD rules make us tell our customers the reference, but they don't then see it on the payment. All they see is the "base" part that was on the Direct Debit Instruction. For us that means customers not seeing the invoice number to which the the payment relates. Again, not explanation why - my message explaining this just got a message explaining that this is what they do - D'Uh, no attempt to address the issue at all, not explanation of why it is not shown. No suggesting they will even look in to it.

So, as of today, A&A DD notices for Starling Bank customers have an extra caveat to ensure our customers are not confused. I am happy to add the same if people find any other banks that are doing the same.

Working with Starling Bank?

As some of you know, I have embraced Monzo, and was a beta tester (my son an alpha tester). It has been an interesting ride. They work, they are good, all my kids have Monzo, and relatives are signing up. Yay!

I am only looking to others because we need a business account that is more forward looking than Barclays, and Monzo are not offering business accounts. So Starling Bank are in there saying they plan to do business accounts.

So my next step is trying to work with Starling Bank. Let's get the business side up and running with APIs we can link in to the accounts.

I have to say, some aspects of Starling are bloody good. I was impressed how easy it was to create an account, literally :-

• Download app
• Follow step by step instructions (small video, and picture of ID)
• Instantly get sort code and account number and working Apple Pay - wow!
• A day later an overdraft offered
• A day later than that and a physical card

This is good. To be honest, I do not know if Monzo are as slick - they may be. As a longer standing Monzo customer I cannot tell. Only difference at this point is Apple Pay which works on Starling and not on Monzo (yet).

It is the way forward, and the way banking is going. I am impressed.

I was less impressed as perhaps an unusual customer wanting to move more than £10k around in order to buy a car. That was messy, but I hope they sort it. I'll bear with them for now on that. It was less hassle than Barclays, to be fair. They do need to cater for people that have that sort of money occasionally though, surely?

The next step is the business side, as we want something very simple. We know it is possible - a web hook for incoming faster payments. That is all. I can do it on Monzo now with sender sort code and account number but not as a business account. On Starling that data is lacking, so close, but not quite. For business this is useful, even essential, and something we lack from Barclays right now.

So, let's see how Starling Bank cope shall we... I'll invest some time on working with them.

P.S. ref code FFWZETD2 gets me "hearts" apparently, whoop!