Is my LG TV haunted?

A few days ago my TV announced it had new s/w to download, so I let it do its thing and upgrade.

Maybe that was a mistake. Yesterday I came in to my man-cave and the TV was on, no signal. That is odd for two reasons: (a) I turned it off the night before, and (b) it turns off after a while with no signal (or used to).

I assumed I was being silly. But this morning the same, and I was suspicious.

Later during the day I popped out today for a coffee, and I definitely turned the TV off when leaving. My wife saw me do it - I am not going crazy. When I came back, there it is, on, no signal.

So I did a test - I turned off the TV.

It turns itself back on!

It also turns on the (connected) Apple TV (as I would expect), and after a while the Apple TV goes off leaving the TV on with no signal. It stays on!

I can only assume this is LG's latest "burn up your OLED pixels quickly" software update. I can't think of any other reason they would do this. Very annoying. Not quite sure what to do - the power socket is an option, but annoyingly all hidden behind the cabinet, and rather tedious to say the least.

FYI I went in to menus and it has "turn on by WiFi" and "turn on by bluetooth", both of which I have disabled, but no different.




P.S. Disabling the simlink stuff "fixes" it, but why was it suddenly broken. It was fine before. Arrrg!

LG and privacy (again)

Just to explain, as some people did not get it, sorry.

This issue here is that LG can do stuff - they can log what programmes and channels I (or anyone else here) watch, and log when I use the voice activated thing.

1. The voice thing being "cloud processed" I can understand, necessary part of the service. I'd like to know it is encrypted to them. I'd like to know it is not retained and sold later. But the basic "process the voice to understand the command, and then forget it all" I would be reasonably happy with if encrypted to them.

2. The tracking what I watch, and worse - selling that to other people? Well no thanks... Why track what I watch?

At the end of the day, they either need consent in order to process this personal data (and they have a postcode anyway and an IP address, so very possible to make "personal" data here), or they do not need consent...

If they need consent they are screwed as people can come and go, enter the room, watch TV, without ever having engaged with LG nor given any consent to any processing of such personal data. They have to stop processing such data now. Needing consent and not having it is a problem!

If they do not need consent then why the hell do we have to jump through hoops in the set up to agree terms and consent to shit in the first place. I can understand the simple processing of encrypted voice to make a command, and not recording/logging/selling that information may be something that is "necessary" and not need consent - not worried if that is the case.

But which is it?

I hope that makes some sense - as to what I choose to publish on my blog, well that is up to me...

LG and privacy

I tweeted LG, and no reply.

Dear @LGUK - how does my TV know which people in the room have consented to TV viewing details and voice recordings being processed by you and which have not? #GDPR

— RevK (@TheRealRevK) 6 March 2018

But I also sent a support email request like this:-

I noted during installation of my new OLED65W7V that there is a point you are expected to agree to terms and conditions, and consent to processing various personal data.

In this instance, as he was helping me install it, my son clicked "agree", so I have no contract with LG, have not agreed any terms and are not bound by any terms and have not consented to any processing of personal information.

1. Given that GDPR will be law soon, how will you be changing the terms and these pages so that any consent is "freely given", i.e. not "in exchange for using some smart TV features" exactly?

2. Given that I have not agreed terms or consented to processing information, how exactly does the TV know not to process voice recordings of me, or my TV viewing data? I.e. how does it tell who has consented and who has not, before processing any data?

3. If it cannot tell, does that mean you have been processing voice recordings and other personal data without my consent?

4. If so, will you be reporting this breach to the Information Commissioner's Office your self, or would you like me to do it for you?

I hope you can help answer these important questions.

To my surprise they replied!

Good morning Adrian,

Thank you for your query regarding your LG TV; I would be more than happy to assist you with this query today.

I can confirm that the TV does not record your voice or use voice controls unless you hold the button on the magic remote to do so.

It is not possible for the TV to function to its fullest without accepting the terms and conditions as it needs to know things like your country for region locked apps like Netflix as well as tracking what you have watched to make recommendations and keep track of where in a series or movie you are. We could revert back to how it used to be and how most manufacturers work and not ask and just do it without your permission.

As previously mentioned the TV does not record or listen to your voice unless you select the option to do so. You can disable this functionality in the terms and conditions by following the steps below;

Home → Settings → All Settings → General → About this TV → User Agreements

There has been no breach of any sort here. While you did not personally agree to the terms and conditions the person you allowed to set up the TV (Your Son) did. At any point you could have prevented this decision or reverted it by following the mentioned steps above.

If you do wish to discuss this further please do not hesitate to contact us on 0344 847 5454 or alternatively you can also reply to this email.

Thank you in advance.

Kind regards 

Carlin

LG Electronics UK Help desk 

---------------------------------- 

LG Customer Services

Wow... Just wow.

Wallpaper TV

As I blogged, I now have a "wallpaper" TV. I hope you enjoyed the video.

But this led me to ponder a few points on this.... It is not like buying a normal TV in many ways.

Normally a TV, even an expensive TV, is not so much a "fixture". You can buy and sell it, transport it (albeit carefully for some large TVs). Someone could steal it, even. A wallpaper TV if different.

It is more of a fixture. Removing it from the wall is not simple, well, it is not that hard but you then have in your hands a large, thin, fragile, piece of glass. That is not easy to transport without the original packaging, and even then it would be a challenge. It would not be easy to simply move to a new room in the house without risk.

The wall bracket is thin metal, and screwed and fixed by sticky pads to the wall. The sticky pads will be an issue, and I doubt I could remove it without bending or breaking it. The only way to move this TV will be to get a new wall bracket from LG.

The base unit (sound bar) could easily be moved, but useless without the panel.

So, I cannot see this being something I could easily move, ever, and really not something someone could steal, any more than someone stealing my ceiling. No, that is not a challenge, honest.

I hope LG do sell new wall brackets, I should check, in case I do ever want to move it. One day, I bet I will go for the 77" and someone else in the house would like this, so a new wall bracket will be a thing we need.

There is also the fact that OLED panels can burn in - there are guarantees, but I wonder how much of the TV's cost is the panel and how much is the base unit. Replacing the panel with a new one would be viable I guess. I wonder if they sell as spare parts.

Even so, a day later, I am still impressed by the new TV...

Installing LG OLED65W7V Wallpaper TV

Wow... I just got a new TV, and it is amazing.

To be clear the amazing bit it not the picture or the sound, they are the same excellent quality of an LG OLED 65" 4K TV and sound bar. The wow factor is the form factor. This is a "wallpaper" TV.

What is a wallpaper TV?

It means the actual panel of the TV sticks to the wall and is a few mm thick (in this case 6mm) with a flat cable coming down to the "sound bar" which is the main TV logic. Lots of ways that "sound bar" could be on a shelf in a recess or even out of sight if you tried. There are even instructions on the cable being "in the wall".

How much?

It costs more! The price comparison today was 77" LG signature OLED £8k, but wallpaper version £12k. I went for the 65" wallpaper version. My wall has space for 77" and in some ways I am thinking I should have done that, but to be honest, even I am not made of money. As it is, those prices meant upping the mortgage!

Is it really that thin?

Well, yes! Even fitted to the wall with the supplied wall bracket, it is that thin. It claims 6mm... It is. I held 5 credit cards against the wall to see...

Is it a good TV?

The panel is the same as the non wallpaper, but designed to be a thin panel on a wall. Apart from the fun of installing it, it is the same, and is awesome just as before. UHD and HDR, and the awesome contrast with true blacks you get with an OLED TV. Stunning.

Black is black!

Is the sound good?

Seems so - it has a "sound bar", and they have gone all out on the gimmicks with the tweeters motorised coming out of the sound bar when you power up. I even make a video especially for that feature... But actually, yes, very good sound - it even has a calibration mode using the microphone in the remote to adjust for the room acoustics.



How hard is it to install?

Well, I was impressed, it was not too hard, and basically James and I did it! I was scared we would screw up, but no, we managed. I have a nice installation video... All I needed was some wall fixings, and actually some were even supplied (we used Fischer fixing plasterboard fixings).



The flat cable!

The flat cable was an issue, it is a certain length and no "plug" at the panel end just hard wired in, and a tad inflexible. As you see in the video it was too long and meant the sound bar at the front of the table. But it does come with an extender which we used, and looped back in the base/cabinet, and made it work nicely. It is one thing to consider when choosing the height of the TV.

This meant I could have the sound bar further back.

Long term it may be sane to hide the cable within the wall, which would be pretty easy, and have a small floating shelf for the sound bar. So many ways this could look "tidy" with a small amount of work.

LG 65EG960V 2015 Curved 4k OLED 3D TV

I have had this TV for over two years now, and overall I have to say I am pleased with it. It seemed like an appropriate time to say a bit more about it, as I am again changing my TV?

The reason for changing is simple. I returned from a short holiday last week (snowed in, at a cottage in the Peak District National Park, coding with two of my friends, so odd meaning of "holiday" in some ways, was fun though). Anyway, on return I found this (long scratch is around 90mm high).

This is two of several large scratches on the TV, some really long, and I am sorry to say that seeing these, even if mostly only visible when black, would drive me nuts. I took care of my TV. Sadly we will probably never know what happened as too many people in the house over the week, and I need to just move on.

However, this does allow me to confirm two important points about the LG curved TV. The first is that you can easily scratch the surface. I think it is some sort of plastic.

Sadly, I also can confirm a second point, you cannot really polish out the scratch. If you try, you polish off the anti-glare coating. I pretty much expected that, but given the scratches basically ruined the TV already I figured it was worth a try.

It is really hard to photograph a shiny spot. Viewed with the right background at the right angle, or in a dark room, it does not show. But sadly this too would drive me round the bend. You can see here in her hair...

So, you have to be very careful with your curved LG TV basically - carefully dust and follow the instructions to not use solvents, etc. Avoid anyone touching it as it takes finger prints very easily, which means keeping well out of reach of small children.

But apart from these warnings - what is my view after 2 years?

I used some of the smart TV features!

I am slightly surprised that I used the smart TV features, but I did. I used iPlayer (to watch Dr Who) and used the inbuilt Netflix especially when they launched 4k content. Very impressive.

I have not used anything else really. One app on my phone was able to stream direct to the TV, but that was not necessary as I have an AppleTV which I can stream to from my phone.

I did not use the tuner!

I have simply not been watching broadcast TV. I do have a SkyQ box but I don't think I have used that for a year. I am pretty much embracing the streaming generation using either Netflix on the TV or the AppleTV. This does mean moving the TV meant I did not need coax points, only power and network.

I have used 4k, and it is good.

When I got the TV, 4k content was hard to come by. I first found some on Netflix using the inbuilt Netflix app. I now have a 4k AppleTV. This means I am watching 4k routinely for any new content that is available in 4k. New films are, and so are new series on Netflix for example. It is impressive.

I have used HDR.

The HDR is one of those things that I have not noticed apart from when the TV tells me it is HDR. The 4k I can see, though that is partly because anything filmed in 4k is filmed on much newer and better kit rather than being able to see the pixels as much in all cases. But I have not really noticed things in HDR.

I used the 3D but very little.

The 3D is very good, and the passive glasses are excellent. The fact it is a 4K TV means playing 3D films that are left/right split but just HD do not lose rows when shown in 3D. This makes the 3D even better than the same 3D on an HD model. The passive glasses are no strain, and the separation is excellent.

I did not use it much basically because of lack of 3D content. Sky dropped it eventually. But it was also used by my son for games, two players seeing different views (2D) on the same screen at the same time.

I like the sound bar.

I got a good quality LG sound bar at the same time - the TV sounds good.

The curve is fine

To really work out if the curve matters, I just need to now use a flat TV more. The curve has no negative impact as far as I can see, and I think meant reflections were less of an issue. It is perhaps a bit of a gimmick which is probably why it seems to have been dropped.

I am clearly spoiled...

What was interesting was the week away. They had a TV in the cottage, no sound bar. It was not OLED. To be honest I am not sure what TV it was - reasonably modern - my mates say it was a big / good TV. I could see the black was not black. I could hear the sound was not very good. It seemed small, and it was only HD :-)

I had not quite appreciated how good the LG TV actually was.

So what next?

The answer, and the topic of the next blog, is the LG OLED65W7V. This is LG OLED, and 4k, but is a flat screen. In fact it is 6mm thick and mounts on the wall. I'll leave the rest for that blog.