So, anyone else with a Nationwide account had this.
You pay someone by DD, and some of the DD collections are bounced by the bank with "AMOUNT NOT DUE".
The DD rules are clear - that error is for when the collection is within 2 days of the DD being set up by AUDDIS (the paperless system for DD instructions) or because the payer (you) say you did not get the right notice (i.e. collected too soon).
As a DD collector we have had this a few times recently with customers with Nationwide accounts. We are trying to reverse engineer there rules. We tested with a member of staff after a couple of customers had issues.
It looks like they bounce any DD that is 2 or 3 working days after the first collection. Well, that is the guess so far. It could be some "rate limiting" thing, e.g. more than 3 DDs in 3 days or some such. We have more tests to do.
The problem is that we launched a new tariff with very strict credit control - bounce a DD and you are cut off until sorted. We have had to somewhat relax that logic as a customer with a Nationwide account apparently bounced a DD when in fact it was all done by their bank.
Having some sort of logic for rate limiting is not totally daft, although the DD guarantee makes it a tad redundant - but we have people who sign up, are invoiced a connection, and a few days later invoiced an ongoing bill, so two DDs close together. In some cases they buy another service like VoIP, and bingo - three DDs in a short space of time. All notified as per the DD rules.
The real problem we have is the bullshit from Nationwide. Sorry, but that is what it seems like to me. It is bullshit - and does not stand up to simplest of checks.
1. They tell customer that A&A did not send the collection, our fault. We have proof they rejected the DD, so that is a lie.
2. When confronted with the XML of the bounce from BACS they say we only "set up" the DD on the first payment, and not weeks before. That is also a lie.
3. When confronted with a screen shot of their own on-line banking showing that is a lie, and DD was set up before, they invent new problems. They invent the idea of a DD instruction having an "end date".
They are totally unable to explain their actions. The last straw was this imaginary final collection date ("end date"). We have worked it out, it is on their screen as "last collection", we suspect. We even asked for the date for a load of other DDs set up on the account, and all were in the past. Clearly "last" collection is not a "final" date but just the date the last collection was made. But it shows they will invent bullshit to excuse themselves. They also blamed "keying errors" by A&A or our sponsoring bank, but could not explain the two payments that did go through. They seem adamant that the sponsoring bank are involved in AUDDIS submissions even though we are "direct submitters" to BACS/VOCA.
So how to fix - we are working through channels, via BACS (who confirm that error is only valid where payer rejects or within 2 days of AUDDIS), and via sponsoring bank. No idea if it will work.
However, we think we may have a simpler approach. It is a bank error, so covered by DD guarantee for consequential losses. So I am tempted to say that the admin fee for a bounced DD with that error is £1000+VAT. That way, anyone suffering this gets to claim from their bank, involving the financial ombudsman if needed. If we get any that are actually paid, we'll split it with you as a £500 credit off future service bills. Anyone wanting to try this is welcome to talk to me on irc - we'll formally agree the charge and then submit the fully notified DD collections.
P.S. it is probably not valid to make up an admin fee to share with our customer, sadly, but I think we should at least charge our standard admin fee if they don't sort it.
Nationwide and DDs bouncing
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